I was chatting with my roommate last night and he mentioned how the definition of a big number in WOW has changed. What was once considered an amazing amount of damage is now commonplace and the frontier of power is many orders of magnitude bigger. This is exactly like Dragon Ball Z. The power of the fighters starts low and keeps climbing to 9,000 and beyond.
This steady climb is required for the already invested player. Without it the game loses its appeal as there are no new mountains to climb. Imagine DBZ where Goku fights Vegeta over and over again. Bad example, I mean Goku and Piccolo fight Raditz repeatedly without any of the three getting stronger. It is not interesting as we already know the outcome. (Spoiler the Saiyans both die.) Clearly this power creep must exist for combat games to be interesting.
Now imagine you're a new player to an MMO that has been around for awhile. The gap between you and the top tier is so much bigger than it would have been if you had started earlier. There is a big feeling of uselessness because you can't affect the world the way the veterans can and it takes so long to reach the veterans' level. Look at Hercule in the Cell Saga. Completely useless and can't even process how powerful the Z fighters are.
This power creep increases the barrier to entry of new players, which is clearly detrimental to the health of a game. The question is then how do you balance the needs of veterans for new heights with beginners feeling the game is accessible?
I don't do MMO's, so I don't know if this would work or not, but maybe use levels? That way everyone can play someone who's roughly their own strength. It's not crushing, there's still a challenge, and there's always the goal of getting to the next level up.
ReplyDeleteIn some games, like M:tG I would argue the power creep might be more attractive to new players. Who doesn't want to get into the game and have the newest cards also be the best cards?
ReplyDeleteWhile it may be able to be viewed as a detriment that new players start so far away from the veterans, it might also display a healthy game if there is a lot to do and a hugely high ceiling to strive for. I think grace has a good argument as to why some games don't need to move the ceiling via game design, but rather can allow skills to move the ceiling (for games like counterstrike). Really though I think it comes down to the fact that a well designed game should be fun at every point, not just when you're the level 70 Badass.
I don't really play MMO's anymore, but what about rolling back the clock. Make a new world every 2 years. Everyone is level 1. The major appeal is to new players, but I'll bet others would be interested as well, for the same reason people play Diablo II ladder after a reset. For the veterans, it's a race. MMO's aren't generally a race, except for when the game comes out (or when new content comes out), but this would be a fresh start for anyone who wasn't first generation. They could make it to the top by getting in on the ground floor.
ReplyDeleteThere is perhaps a worry that old worlds would become ghost-towns, but maybe that could be avoided by merging old worlds if they became too sparsely populated.
Grace => Most MMOs use levels. The problem is all but the last level tend not to be interesting. WOW is the extreme example where the game doesn't start until you reach max level, which requires about a month or more of playtime.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous => Actually M:tG focuses very hard on combating power creep. One of their biggest tools is the Standard environment is only the last 2 years worth of cards. The constant flows in and out of cards keeps it fresh while allowing the power level to be about constant. This is essentially what FoolHardy1729 proposed. If you want a game with power creep, look at Yu-Gi-Oh.
You are right that a gap is not necessarily a bad thing. The problem is when the gap makes the new players feel helpless, like WOW. But if even a new player sees they make an impact on the world, then the gap is not a problem. EVE is the only example I have of this. I think it has to do with the difference in leveling mechanics.
FoolHardy1729 => Your right that one solution is to restart the world. This is the M:tG solution. I am just now sure that it is the best solution because it invalidates all the effort the veterans have invested in the game.
Hmmmm, just a quick comment, but it seems like the idea of power creep being a problem is only if it makes players feel helpless. So I'm curious if new players actually feel helpless when they start a new character. One could test this out at minimal cost, as WoW is now free up to level 20. DC universe Online is now completely free, and I'm sure there a few other MMO's that have some level of free play.
ReplyDeleteUltimately, the game has to be fun...right. If its not fun nobody is going to play. So if its fun to play from level 1-20 in the early game then I wouldn't say thats a problem.
So I guess my real question is, "Does power creep make players feel helpless" And if helpless, helpless against what? Fighting against other players? In hopes of catching up to other players?
Perhaps this could be another post
@EconNinja (I was the "anon" before), I agree M:tG definitely tries to combat the power creep as best they can, but given the choice they're still going to print subtly (or sometimes not so subtly) better cards in new sets. Like you said in Standard this isn't really a problem, but I think the power creep definitely becomes clearer in the more eternal formats like modern and legacy. They do a good job all things considered, but I think 1 drops have improved (delver, wild nacatl) 2 drops (stoneforge, tarmogoyf, snapcaster), 3 drops (knight of the reliquary, liliana, vendilion clique), and 6s (titan cycle, wurmcoil). The power creep in this kind of game can be especially bad when it affects the pricetag and creates a tangible barrier to competitive entry. In this type of game it might be the casual yet longterm player that is screwed the most by it, when I stop to think about it. I don't mean to sidetrack the convo too much to M:tG, but as I haven't yet played any MMOs it's tough to comment there.
ReplyDeleteLarnok => your right that there is a some what simple, if time consuming test. Other notable free MMOs are Forsaken World and Everquest 2. I did try Forsaken World for a bit and it was kind of a boring grind. I wasn't helpless per say, it just wasn't that engaging. Though I doubt that Forsaken World has the polish of WOW. So it would probably be more accurate to say that if the early level are unfun there is a problem.
ReplyDeleteRyan => Not to worry, I will be blogging about this more. The counter is look at the non-creatures of the past. The Power Nine, Force of Will, Tolarian Academy, and Original Duals are all non-creatures. I know that M:tG has re-scaled things so that creatures are better and non-creatures are worse. Though I don't think this is fully power creep, at least not Yu-Gi-Oh level creep. True creep would be essentially no old cards are strong enough for the large formats. It is almost the opposite, it is rare for new cards to really shake up Legacy and Vintage. Also price tag is driven by more than just power. First many of the cards you mentioned are Mythics, a new thing that I really hate. Also Magic is gaining in popularity increasing demand. So while price is annoying, it is not fully a sign of power creep. You are right though that the long term casual player is in a bad position. I think that is why EDH has become so popular. It creates a standard that all casual players know.
I have an idea for a solution. At time 1, when a player decides to begin playing the game, there is a road ahead of approximately x hours to reach "the top". Now new content is added at a later time, time 2, and it takes another y hours to reach the top. If nothing changes, a player deciding to play the game beginning at time 2 has to commit x+y hours to reach the top. So my proposed solution is to make low-level content less time intensive as you add higher level content.
ReplyDeleteIf originally you could get up to the level 60 cap in x hours, and then a cap of level 70 was introduced, which would take y additional hours, rescale so that it takes x-y hours to reach level 60. Perhaps this has undesirable consequences, in that players may feel resentment towards new players who have an easier time, but this is a rather intrinsic problem with eliminating the power creep. If you want, don't eliminate it entirely, but reduce it somewhat.
On a separate note, I doubt the ability of the test proposed by Larnok to gauge whether there is an issue or not. The fact that some people start playing the game (possibly in spite of a power-creep deterrent) doesn't mean there aren't many more who would start playing except the deterrent is too great for them (in comparison to how much they enjoy other aspects of the game).
I believe that WOW has implemented a version of your solution though making the earlier levels go by faster. Though this runs the risk of angering the veteran players because they spent so much more effort than a new player.
ReplyDeleteYou're right that Larnok's test is not rigorous. But the idea of playing and seeing if the low levels are fun is an important factor in whether power creep is an issue.
EconNinja: you're right about how WoW handles this problem: they have sped up the leveling process. To get from level 1 to 60/70/80 used to take way more time than it does now. They did this various ways, like increasing xp from mobs, lower travel costs, and adding a design interface to make dungeons far easier to do (previously you had to manually form a group, and then physically walk to the entrance--now groups autoform, pulling people from across servers, and teleport you there and back). Also, they've added "horizontal differentiation" like pets you can collect and holiday quests and achievements. These are mostly available at all levels, and so can be done by newbies too.
ReplyDeleteObviously this stings veteran players a bit. But, ultimately, veteran players are in the best position to be the first people to consume new content when an expansion is released. That is usually sufficient for many of them. And also, don't discount expectations---players all know their uber-gear today will quickly become useless once the next expansion comes out. And yet they continue playing because being the most geared player of all time is not their sole objective.
On the same note, I want to clarify a point you mentioned earlier. You said the game starts at the maximum level, but I don't think you meant it since ya'll have been talking about the importance of making lower levels fun in the above comments. There are many kinds of players who don't consume endgame content. A large number of players enjoy the leveling process itself, and getting a feel for the different races & classes. They rarely play endgame material. There are also "twinks" who purposely pause leveling at low levels (usually level 19) and thus purposely impose constraints on their powers and weapons available. This supposedly makes skill more important.
Finally, in worlds like WoW where players invest huge amounts of time in developing human capital and gathering assets, world restarts are simply not feasible. There are two issues: first is simply the wealth aspect. For example, I played Ultima Online long ago. I had several maximum level characters, a nice three story house (best thing about UO compared to all others!), and a modest collection of rare items. Until my account was hacked and I lost it all. Instead of starting over, I just quit. I suspect many people would feel the same way. Second, also based just on my personal experience---I have an emotional connection to my WoW characters. In a sense, they are an extension of my soul. Losing them would be like losing an arm. After all, I've spent literally months of time with them. So, although I rarely play these days, I am happy to know they are still there.
Ok, so I wanted to know what people thought of the following thing.
ReplyDeleteSo its obvious that the number of people playing WoW has dropped considerably in the last year or so, and blizzard has made a wide variety of attempts to improve the number of people playing. These attempts include playing for free up to level 20, commercials starring Chuck Norris, getting a free copy of Diablo 3 with a one year subscription to WoW. These are at least the ones that I've seen, and come to mind when I think about an aggressive advertising campaign to improve subscribers. But now there is a new one that I think is worth mentioning.
So the next "upgrade/promotion" I've seen is something called the scroll of resurrection which is when a player gets a super pimped out mount, in return for getting an inactive player (not a new player, but a player who has been inactive since march 4th). The returning player gets the following stuff
7 days of free game time, a optional free character move (to another server), a FREE upgrade to cataclysm (the most recent massive game update), and in my opinion the most interesting thing of all, is a free upgrade to boost a single character to level 80!
I'm curious to know what people think about this, having a character instantly moved to level 80. That seems...pretty crazy.